How to Find Meaning in Suffering: From Hero to Villain and Back Again with Jose Pereira of the Citgo 6

Imagine being on the brink of an ordinary business trip, only for it to spiral into a tale of survival against all odds. This episode brings to light the arresting narrative of Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk, a Citgo oil and gas executive in the US, whose life was changed forever when he was falsely imprisoned in Venezuela on espionage charges. Jose  describes the eerie forewarning that presaged his ordeal, and the subsequent struggle for sustenance within the walls of a Caracas prison. His poignant recount of isolation, health battles, and the flicker of hope reignited by a precious phone call with his wife is nothing short of a testament to human resilience.

As we dissect Jose's journey through the darkest days, we expose the life rafts that kept him afloat: the clasp of hope, the power of a positive mindset,  his faith, the Bible,  his family and fellow prisoners, and the crucial role of spirituality. He shares the strategies that shepherded him through the tempest—focus, calm, and a resolute spirit nourished by prayer, exercise, and the truths in the Bible. With inspiration from the apostle Paul, Jose also becomes a beacon in adversity, reminding us that solidarity, community support, and faith can illuminate the path to resilience and reclaiming one's life from the jaws of despair.

If you enjoy this show, please subscribe, review and rate with your reflections with our community.

I'm wishing you lots of love on your own hero's journey,
Karen
xoxo

Connect with Karen Hall
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Connect with Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk

Jose Angel Pereira, former CEO of Citgo, is one of the Citgo 6, a group of Americans wrongfully detained and held hostage and abused in Venezuela for almost 5 years because he is an American. Beforehand, he spent 35 Years as an Oil Company Executive. 

After returning on October 1, 2022, Jose wrote his memoir while advocating for other Americans unlawfully detained and helps to change US policy on dealing with hostages by leveraging his international experiences to empower others in making positive changes in the world and in their life. His motto is never to give up and never lose faith.
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Transcript

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 0:00

I began to walk faster and the guy continued walking and he said let me tell you the future the name of your wife is boom. And he said the name of my wife. When he said the name of my wife, I said what's going?

Karen Hall: 0:13

on here.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 0:14

Why the name of my wife? And he told me, because I had to tell you the future. And he told me you have to be careful because you're going to go in a trip, in a plane that's going to change your life.

Karen Hall: 0:34

Hey there, welcome back. I'm Karen Hall, your host of the Hero Within podcast. I'm passionate about sharing inspiring true stories of unsung heroes who've overcome some of life's most challenging adversities. Come along with me and learn how you too can find hope and healing to return to love. I just want so much for your message to come across to bless people that need to hear this.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 1:01

Thank you, thank you very much, thank you very much and thank you for connecting with me.

Karen Hall: 1:05

I just amazed at your story.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 1:07

People got surprised because you don't think these things happen, but it happens.

Karen Hall: 1:14

And, like you said, we all have unexpected things that happen with the phone call or the news. Life happens, you never know.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 1:20

You never know when your life is going to change dramatically. It changed like this In a second.

Karen Hall: 1:26

Okay.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 1:27

I was an oil and gas guy and I'm a third generation of oil and gas because we are Venezuelan born. Venezuelan In back to the 80s, in the 90s, was a very wealthy country with a very powerful oil and gas company. It was PDB. I began working very young, when I was 21 and I was following the career of my dad and my career on my granddad, and I did this 35 years career. I stayed like 20 years in Venezuela working with a lot of international joint ventures, and then they transferred me to the US, here to Houston, like 15 years ago, and I did. I continue my career in Singapore. Petroleum is the sixth refinery in the US, so I continue my career there and in 2017 I was the CEO of the company and I have having a wonderful life.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 2:15

But the situation in Venezuela has, unfortunately, a communist regime since decades, so the situation was being deteriorated and they did a fake elation there and I think we can go back and by the time Trump was in office and he began to do a lot of pressure to take these guys out and begin to impose sanctions, did an oil embargo and when I began to see all this stuff, I told my wife you know why I'm going to get hurt. I went to talk with my boss. I said, hey, I have 35 years, and he accepted to get retired February. I said, okay, I was going to see a movie with my wife. Suddenly you received a phone call. So he called me and he said hey, you have to come to Caracas tomorrow. Well, the day after I was traveling to Caracas in the corporate plane with my five top executives and it was a big meeting because it was 1000 people. So we did a meeting, standing ovation, everybody was happy. I was going to the airport to come back to prepare my thing.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 3:21

That came my nightmare, because I saw like 20 guys like a Robocop, black skeleton mask, and when I saw that guy, everybody was scared. I told the guy that was with me what is that he had seen. The guy was really scared to death and he told me oh say, this is the counterintelligent police, military police. So I was not aware because I was living here in the US and they asked for me. So we went to another room and they appeared a general, because that was a military police and this guy began to say that we were accused of espionage, treason, investment, corruption, and we thought that that was some some background. What is this? This is a joke that became a Tibetan nightmare, because that day we went to this military installation, handcuffed, and we were putting up three story basement, totally confined.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 4:16

We were totally separated. I didn't know where the other guys were, and that confinement lasted 10 months. I didn't have no contact to the stair world, the lights all the day turned on 24, seven. There was luck. There was no window and we begin to have serious health issues. I got bronchitis, pneumonia, scabies. My situation began to deteriorate fastly and, by the way, the food was really terrible. So I lost 100 pounds, yeah, 100 pounds. So I think we were going to die.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 4:52

So when we were like in the 10 months, one day they opened the door and they called me and they have a phone and said you have one minute call, he's your wife, because I didn't know that by that moment there was having a lot of pressure. So they gave me this call and when I talked with my wife I asked her how are you? And she told me hey, puppy, we are fighting very hard for you and I said I'm alive. That was that one minute call and that's it. But I heard her. So when I heard her, I said okay, they're okay, they're working for me and they know. Now they are alive. When I came back, when I talked with my wife, I asked her I was your feeling during that call and she told me that she couldn't stop crying all the day after that. But for her, hearing my voice was wow, he's alive.

Karen Hall: 5:40

Because I'm sure she didn't have any news about you.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 5:43

Let me tell you they were going to there and they were denying that I was there, so I was literally disappeared.

Karen Hall: 5:50

Yes, During those 10 months it could be so easy to feel abandoned, to feel like nobody cares. You don't have any contact with the outside world, nothing with your family, your wife, nobody. And it would be so easy to lose hope during that time.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 6:06

Let me tell you I was losing hope. At some point I was even thinking in commit suicide because I was feeling that I was going to die. So that was my situation at that moment. But after I received that call, of course that gave you a boost. And two months after, one day they opened the door again and there appeared a French lady and a Spanish guy and they were from the UN commissioned the flu to Venezuela. And when they talked with me, the first thing they said we already talked with the other guys, so I knew they were alive. They really got surprised when they saw us because we were really in bad condition. This guy went to the government and said these guys are going to die. This guy needs food and medicine. There was no food in Venezuela because that situation was really deteriorating. So they authorized our family to bring the food. So my eldest son had to flew to Colombia. He moved to Colombia purchasing the food and was delivering to Venezuela and somebody picked up the food they cooked and they sent it to me. It was a total logistic. They stayed doing that during four years. They shouldn't change, because I began to receive food and medicine, even though they were stealing the medicine because Venezuela didn't have medicine. So when they sent me the boxes of medicine, this guy took it.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 7:24

I began to smuggle letters inside there. I, in the trash can double bottom, I began to put letters. I was thinking what is the worst thing that can happen to me? So I took the risk. That first letter went through and two days later, when I received the food, I opened who appears? A letter of my life. And we stayed doing it.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 7:44

In three years it began to be a routine. I was literally writing everything. At the beginning, when I began to do that, really I was thinking that okay, if I don't make it, at least my family are going to have the chronicle of what happened. But at some point I began to say, no, you're going to make it and this is going to be your testament. So let me tell you, karen, when I came back, my wife had compiled those letters, almost 1000 letters, and that became to be what's going to be my book now. But we were editing the book. For me it was surprising because the flow of the letters began to change, began to evolve. So that's why I can tell you very vividly that the first letter was totally hopeless and it began to improve.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 8:33

I know today all these events because my wife has told me so that first year since day one, they went to the US government and the US governor was on board. So we were not really abandoned. But the situation was going so bad there that the ambassador like at six months he was recalled. So they lost direct contact. So they began to triangulate with the UN and other governments. But they were having this type of back-to-scene negotiation and we became the political ponds of the relation between Venezuela and the US. So we were going to be changed for the relief of the sanctions and leave the oil market. Can you imagine that?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 9:14

And of course there was a lot of back and forward and at some point this guy began to relax the situation and the first year really the press didn't know that we existed. So when our family they went to the press, wow, the press got surprised. So they began to get a lot of interviews after the first year because they're having a lot of pressure. One day they opened the door, they took me from the press at the West and then I saw these other five guys and we were put together. After one year being together we began to receive information for all over and we were hearing that they were doing interviews in CNN and Bloomberg. We said, wow, our family was doing a lot. And that began to infuse more because you know that something was happening.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 10:03

They began to relax a little bit the situation, where we were put together what's a very tiny room, let me tell you.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 10:09

We were in a very, very tiny room. We were like at 100 square foot, but we were together and we did a plan to survive. We began to organize everything to eat, to do exercise, to read, because they began to allow us to read. I was all the day writing. I was developing a secret code with my wife for everything we were talking and I told her I'm going to write my book In the name of my book, from Hero to Million the True Story of the Sick of the Sick. Let me tell you for me, when I came back, it was easy to revisit those letters because I had the chronicles of everything that happened there and the thing began to evolve fast. One day October 1st 2022, they opened the door, they put a handcuff, they tied our legs, they put us in a plane and we landed in a Caribbean island called San Vincent and Granady, we were swapped with a prisoner, swap the two nephews of the president of Venezuela, and we landed here in San Antonio in a military base.

Karen Hall: 11:15

I bet you felt so relieved when you got on that US plane.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 11:19

Let me tell you, everybody was crying, singing, everybody was laughing, everybody was shouting the ambassador, he sit with me. Some hours later he received a phone call and he said Jose, we crossed the US space. The president had stopped with your wife, so he gave me the phone and I called her. I called her and said, hey, mommy, I'm here. And she was like, yeah, I know, the president called me. He called me, wow, yeah. And when I landed they were waiting there, all my family, to oh, the day that you had probably dreamed of, wow.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 11:59

I can tell you there is a moment there for me Today. I still think that there's going to be the moment of my life because when I was going from the tarmac to the hangar, I saw a very tiny guy running. He has blonde hair. He's curly blonde hair, and when I saw him onfigurating his eye he got kind of dark white eyes. That is my grandson. He had three years at the time, but I knew him because I was seeing photos of him. My daughter-in-law was always showing photos. This is your grandpa. So when he saw me he recognized me. Oh, so he came to me. That was the end of the story and the beginning of my new journey.

Karen Hall: 12:45

Yes, your new journey. I understand that now you coach people that are struggling. I also am a life coach, and one of the things that I have noticed is that when a person loses hope, that is one of the most difficult things. And what were some of the thoughts that went through your mind when you felt no more hope? I know you said that you were thinking of ending your life. What were some of the other thoughts that you had during that time?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 13:13

You said that very well, because the problem is, sometimes it's your mind that plays the game with you. Okay, I see that call from my wife. I said, okay, jose, you had to really work your case. So I decided to become focused on the situation. I said, okay, stay calm and go through it. So I began to get more relaxed All my life everybody that knows me knows that I'm having all this positive. So I decided to reset me and got that positivity. And the other thing is that when I got connected to my family, she was writing me all everything that was going on. I was sending the letter and waiting in two days to receive the other letter. It was like a exciting moment, opening that today.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 14:00

I always talk that in any adversity, you have to connect with your loved ones. Because this is the way you're gonna navigate this. I will tell the people never do the things alone, because one of the things that happened with the people when they lose hope is they get depressed and they get alone. Yes, they do their thing alone and unfortunately, this is one of the biggest challenges today in the world that people get depressed and alone and people that you believe they are okay and they're not okay. So you had to connect with the people that love you. So we really created a bond, because part of our plan was never letting nobody to be there. So for some reason, somebody was down in some moment. The other five guys jumped immediately. Any struggle, any argument that could be going on in the day would stop and take care of your mental and physical health, because if you're having any problem and you're gonna go down depressed, you're not gonna take care of your mental and physical health. It's gonna be worse. So we begin to take care of ourselves.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 15:06

Let me tell you, for us, exercising was the most funny thing you can imagine. In that case, one guy was static yoga, the other was doing cardio, the other guy was doing static running, the other guy was doing push-up, the other guy was doing yoga and we were like, how are we doing things? We dedicated two hours to that and we were dedicated to read and to write, and we took three hours a day, from 8 pm to 11 am, between reading the Bible and praying. You had to connect to your spirituality. I began to read the Bible like I had never read it, because I was a Catholic guy, born in a Catholic country, but I never had read the Bible the way I read it. So when I rediscovered all Luke, I discovered Peter. Wow, I was so amazed I got big fan of these guys, so that really makes a change. Doing all these things together. Today I coached my program. It's called Life Peals for a Survivor Guide and it's basically based on that.

Karen Hall: 16:14

It's so amazing when you read the Bible and you read about Paul being in prison and the thorn in his side and all the trials that he went through. It probably gave you comfort to know that he had gone through it and he persevered and the Lord helped him through his trials.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 16:29

I have something I wanna say here that for me, is amazing, because the fourth year was the total relax of our situation, because they were trying to get with the US and we're treating okay, so they began to allow us to have a small TV with TV players. So for the first time in four years I had a TV and I had TV leads and that guy that was providing me the food and the logistics and he brought me the movie of Paul there. And let me tell you, seeing the story of Paul in prison, seeing the way he handled the situation, wow, was really surprising, was amazing. So I think this is the type of thing that I think these are kind of sign of God.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 17:10

Yeah, because in the night you begin in the prison seeing the Paul in a movie and seeing how he was in his struggles and his adversity. He's already in prison and he was having conversation on a daily basis with Luke. Luke came in the night to talk with him. So when you see that story and you begin to be reading the Bible and in a profound way, how we were doing it, how I get, that was different game. Let me tell you, when I came back, the first thing I did was going to the church. I'm today very connected with my church, with my pastor, part of a group that we are seeing called Golden Heart, so we gather, we do things together. So I'm today very connected with my church and my wife. So this is one of the things that I really discovered after all this.

Karen Hall: 18:06

Yes, and I wondered had you seen someone go through adversity and share any of their story with you that helped you?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 18:15

There's a very interesting question because let me tell you I'm today I'm not gonna say that at the beginning, when I came back, was easy. I had to go to a trauma center. I was having some PTSD events and I began to have therapy by the way, I have today still therapies every week that we became friends. But she did something great. She began to explore my past and I discovered that I have a lot of events in my past that was preparing me for this event, things that happened that I didn't remember. They were there back in my memories. When I rediscovered all those things, I said wow, god, you were preparing me for this event. God prepares you. God has a master plan for you and you don't know it because he's not going to reveal it to you. I went through a lot of events in my previous life, as I said, that was preparing me for that big event.

Karen Hall: 19:11

And what a beautiful thing to look back and to see that Now you can connect the dots. You know, in the middle of those times it can be very confusing and yet when you look back and you can see it now, I'm sure it fills you with gratitude for the way that your life played out.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 19:28

The other day, somebody asked me if somehow I can feel gratitude for the situation. I went and I can tell you and I'm not going to say that I'm glad that happened to me, but I learned a lot through this. One month after I came back, I flew to Washington because our family, with 19 more families of another American, there were hostages all over the world. They got together and they created a movement called the Bring Our Family Home Campaign. For the first time, all these families were working together.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 20:00

I met a lot of families in person. I saw their faces, I saw the faces of former hostages and I began to talk with them. And when I began to talk with them and I saw, well, the stories are very similar. This is something called the Hostage Diplomacy that in this government. They are evil and it's like a very sophisticated diplomatic technique to leverage using human beings. So that's why I decided to begin to help those families and give them hope and that's why I decided to begin to coach, because they said okay, jose, you have your experience. For some reason, god took you this back and I began to work with the foundations that support the hostage community. Today I've connected to all of them Every time they have any event, they call me. I'm always available. I sit in front of them. I was in the UN, I went to the Congress. I begin to really become vocal. Talking about that, I feel gratitude.

Karen Hall: 21:04

Yeah, I'm sure you do. And then when you read Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel, which is another one of my favorite books, there were so many similarities between the suffering that he went through and what you were going through. It was like a concentration camp.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 21:19

Let me tell you there are so many similarities. We were starving, okay, and I remember that brought on Sundays a soup, and that soup for us was kind of a feast. Having a soup it was the best thing to eat in that week. And we were always begging to get some meat, something, not only that liquid, some meat. Victor Frankel talks about that. When I read his book and he narrated the event of the soup in the concentration camp I said wow, it was like this guy talking to me. Of course this guy may be wearing a severe situation that I asked, but there was a lot of similarities.

Karen Hall: 22:04

Love the similar feelings.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 22:06

Oh yes, not only that. It was saying that you need to find your purpose, your path, find God. I said, okay, this guy is talking to me, so that's why today that's my book.

Karen Hall: 22:18

That's wonderful, and I remember when he said how important finding meaning is in suffering and that's one of the purposes of our life here, because everyone's life includes some form of suffering at some point in time and to be able to find meaning and purpose in that suffering. I remember thinking sometimes, when I've gone through suffering, it's been hard for me to find a purpose and it's been hard for me to find a positive meaning. And when you're coaching with someone and they're struggling, maybe I think of any good thing that could possibly come out of this. How do you help them to find a purpose and to find a meaning?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 22:58

I always tell them that this is something that really you have to do it by choice. This is a very personal decision, is your choice. I always encourage them. For me, it's easy to tell them I'm not talking, I'm a proof of it. So that, for me, is I can reinforce them Again. It's a very personal choice. Really, the person has to shake and rewire her brain and change the mindset. This is the only way to make this With that.

Karen Hall: 23:33

Yes, that's so true, and I remember one of the other things that I was so impressed with Victor Franco was when he said that they could take everything away from him, but they could not take away his ability to choose how to think.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 23:46

It was the same that, the way they do, they try to break you because they begin to make pressure, so they apply these type of techniques, but they couldn't break us. They couldn't break us. I can't remember that. My daughter, when she was in the hangar in San Antonio, she always told me that when she talks about this she said I saw my dad. He was coming from a vacation because I landed, laughing. But you know why I was so happy? Because I was thinking I made it, yes, I made it. So that was like wow, you made it. So I really was in a happy mood because of that.

Karen Hall: 24:28

Now, another thing that I wonder if you used a lot is your imagination to help you through A lot.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 24:35

Let me tell you one thing the six of us were guys. We were a long career and always vacation were traveling. We were all the time talking about traveling. Everybody was talking. When I was in Italy and we were talking about food, we were talking about cooking, we were talking about sporting. We were all the day doing imagination, thinking in a good style, because that maintained a positive mindset.

Karen Hall: 25:01

Yes, that's very good.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 25:03

Yeah, and at some point we began to play domino. We did a tournament of domino there, so we began to try to manage our situation.

Karen Hall: 25:12

Did you think about anybody else besides Paul while you were going through that? Somebody that you knew in your family, perhaps that had gone through hard things?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 25:20

Yeah, the story of my dad. My dad passed when I was 14. Literally, I became like the man of the family, being 14, then I managed to do it, yeah.

Karen Hall: 25:31

Tell me more. What were those other events that happened in your life that the Lord prepared you for this one?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 25:37

I had that event when I was 14, then after, when I was 36, my mom passed and literally during those 22 years she never, never stopped crying. I believe there were soulmates and that she didn't handle it. It was 22 years of suffering and I had to deal with that and literally she died in my hands. I was 36 at that moment. That was another big event in my life. So those two events and the time that happened, I forget that. When I came back I began to go to these therapies. I began to recall all those events. So those events for me really was preparing me for what's going to happen in the future. I can stay here talking hours, okay, and there are several events that happened in during the years. I'm going to tell only one here.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 26:35

I began to progress in my career back into 2005. I was in a meeting in London because I was working with the National Joy Ventures, so I was having a meeting with a BP. I finished my meeting on Friday. I was flying back Sunday morning, so I had Saturday to be off. I decided to go to these double-deckers to do the tour of the city and I began to walk Saturday in the morning. Nobody was there. That was totally empty, very nice weather.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 27:05

I was walking and when I was going to the Hard Rock Cafe, a guy sitting in the wall. The guy told me hey, you want me, I tell you the future. I continued walking and the guy began to walk beside me. He said this guy is going to steal my wallet. So I began to walk faster and the guy continued walking and he said let me tell you the future. The name of your wife is Boom. And he said the name of my wife. When he said the name of my wife, I said what's going on here? Why do you know the name of my wife? And he told me because I had to tell you the future. And he told me you have to be careful because you're going to go in a trip in a plane that's going to change your life. Oh my goodness. He told me that and I was flying the other day.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 27:55

So I called my wife and I told her hey, mommy, I happened this situation. I'm going to cancel the flight. Maybe the plane is going to crash. And she said wow and okay. I came back All the flight I was thinking about. We landed in Karaca, everything fine, nothing happened. Years passed Every time I was going to a trip, I was thinking what the guy told me? 2017,. It happened. I went in the plane in a trip that changed my life forever. So that guy, he was telling me the future.

Karen Hall: 28:32

Yes, he certainly was. Oh, my goodness, you are such an amazing example of resilience and I love your positive nature. I love your faith. I love how you relied on the Lord to help you and how you did rely on your family and how they supported you. That is such a gift from the Lord to have your family to be there for you.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 28:55

Oh yeah, my wife, by the way, encouraged my wife to write her book because I told her your story is going to resonate to a lot of women. They are going and struggling in their life. Because I don't know how she did it, I can tell you I'm here because of her in my three sons, because all of them were doing something to support me at some point. And this is something that really is important to say that the family, when you're going to this situation, literally put their lives in pause. It's the same when you're going to any adversity, maybe somebody close to you having a serious illness Literally all the family goes in pause. So this is difficult. Sometimes you're talking about the person that's having the adversity. You don't talk about the people that are surrounding them. That's why I'm encouraged my wife and really to write her book, because her story will resonate with a lot of people.

Karen Hall: 29:48

Yes, and that is such a true point because it does affect everyone else and, like you said, the whole family does go on pause.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 29:57

They were not in a physical prison, but they were in a psychological prison, because you don't have more anniversaries, you don't have more birthdays. I remember my kids telling me that they were invited to go to a dinner, to go to the movie, and they feel bad. So my wife decided to not go nowhere because she felt bad. They said how can I go into a party, how can I go to a movie? And my dad is going through this situation, so they put your life in pause. Yes, it's like a bomb in the middle of the family.

Karen Hall: 30:31

Do you have any last parting words of wisdom that you would like to share with our listeners?

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 30:36

I always tell the people that sometimes people think that the situation they're going through is something that maybe they can handle, they can make. I can tell them that they can do it because God he never abandoned us, because I will discover that even we were in that moment. He was there with us. He was taken by hand. Any situation in your life, you can survive it, but it's your choice, the way you decided to recognize that everything is here.

Karen Hall: 31:06

Yes, that's such a beautiful thing because, even though our mind can trick us to think that we are abandoned, to think that God has forgotten us in addition to everybody else, that's not true. The truth is that he is there, even if we can't feel it that he is there.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 31:23

Always, always, today, I see God everywhere.

Karen Hall: 31:27

I bet you do. To be able to get the letter from your wife Probably felt like a miracle. You probably send miracles all the time in things that ordinarily would not look like a miracle.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 31:37

I have another miracle that I can tell, but I'm not going to say it here because I want the people to write it in my book.

Karen Hall: 31:43

Yes, and so the name of your book is Hero to Villain.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 31:48

From Hero to Villain, the true story of the 6th to 6th, Now in the process of the publishing. I believe that more or less in two months I'm going to have it out.

Karen Hall: 31:58

Okay, I can't wait to read it myself, and I just want to tell you that you are a hero, and you're a hero to your family and you're a hero to everyone that hears your story, because I can say, if you could do what you did and go through what you did, then I can go through what I'm going through. And if you can rely on the Lord in the most desperate of situations, I can turn to Him too, and I can believe that he is there for me too.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 32:25

Yeah, that's totally true. It is that way.

Karen Hall: 32:29

Yes, and so you are a beacon of hope that turned people to the Lord.

Jose Angel Pereira Ruimwyk: 32:34

Thank you. Thank you for having me, bye-bye.

Karen Hall: 32:37

Bye-bye. Thank you so much for being here and listening to today's show. I Know Life is Busy. I appreciate you and value the time we spend together. If you enjoyed this message, please subscribe, leave a review and include any questions you have for our guest. I'll read your review and mention you by name in my Thursday episode. See the show notes to get the link to join our Facebook group email list and to listen and watch our episode on YouTube. We're wishing you lots of love in your own hero's journey.